Curse

Warrior Of The Toon · Jun 13, 2007, 05:35 PM // 17:35

I think if they want a cap that it should be around 40-48, but 25 is ridiculous, why do they give us so many skills for boosting armour if they don't want us stacking them?

Or to go uncapped and still have some sort of balance, maybe, on top of effects from skills, for every so many extra points of armour you should move so much slower. For example after +24 armour, for each additional point of armour you move 1.5% slower (so at +48 armour you move 36% slower, +72 armour 72% slower, etc). This would be calculated before any speed drains applied to you by spells, hexes etc

Xioden · Jun 13, 2007, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Except for idiots in RA running Earth Tanks (At the same time you can get idiots running any number of builds that can't be beaten unless you have some heavy enchant removal), the main problem is SYG+WY.

-50% damage constantly to (usually) the entire party is alot considering they use it at pretty much no cost.

Change SYG to a slightly higher armor amount (+20-50 scalling maybe) and give it a "While not under the effect of another shout or chant". Make it an actual situational "Uhoh we're taking a lot of damage!" skill.

And although its a game mechanic change, possibly changing shouts to not reapply if they're already up (if you have 2 seconds left on WY and a paragon uses it again you don't get it recharged). This wouldn't really nerf any solo paragons, but rather large groups of them when they're carrying duplicates. At the very, very least, it would stop the spamming of the skills on recharge...

gasmaskman · Jun 13, 2007, 05:51 PM // 17:51

So, to all these people who think this +armor nerf kills DoA farming....why don't you guys prot spirit your tanks? I mean...if you don't already. That way you won't need an insane amount of +armor gear.

But, I don't play PvE so I don't know anything about DoA or whatever.

milias · Jun 13, 2007, 06:08 PM // 18:08

I have to say that I was very disappointed with this change, as well. This has rendered my Strength Warrior build pretty much useless. I hope ANet doesn't decide to keep this.

GloryFox · Jun 13, 2007, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Quote:

posted by gasmaskman
So, to all these people who think this +armor nerf kills DoA farming....why don't you guys prot spirit your tanks? I mean...if you don't already. That way you won't need an insane amount of +armor gear.

But, I don't play PvE so I don't know anything about DoA or whatever.

Spoken like a true PvPr your post says it all and explains everything wrong with how PvP nerfs kills the PvE experience. Not a rant on PvP just a fact.

MOBS of creatures who can spawn recreations of themselves with skill levels of 19-24 who remove enchants with ease is why Prot Spirit has limited uses at best. Armor stacking is about the only way to mitigate serious damage in these areas. There are other ways but this calls for very specific class hating builds who exclude 6 of the 10 primary professions.

Thats why.

Ninjutsu Honor Code · Jun 13, 2007, 06:23 PM // 18:23

This update makes hard mode monsters say:"Yip eeh Ka Yay Motherf*cker"

Lagg · Jun 13, 2007, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Unless they give Warriors a Sunspear PvE skill that's basically Dolyak Signet on crack, (say permanent +80 Armor, cannot be knocked down, no speed debuff), Anet is going to have to watch the nerdrage unfold.

Ain't no rage like it!™

Ninjutsu Honor Code · Jun 13, 2007, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Nah its gonna be called the Frolzyak Signet +80 armor 33% faster attack and double damage... vs plants XD

Ninjutsu Honor Code · Jun 13, 2007, 06:28 PM // 18:28

No seriously I dont want any pve only skills to be able to tank or buff my team give the pvp crybabies a suitable counter instead of a nuke on armor.

Lagg · Jun 13, 2007, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninjutsu Honor Code

vs plants XD

Seriously, they need to nerf those Pruning upgrades.

Will somebody please think of the shrubberies!

Racthoh · Jun 13, 2007, 06:30 PM // 18:30

WY + SYG is just part of the mass paragon problem, and really this doesn't affect them all that much. Those teams still have:

Finale of Restoration/Purification
106 AL (80 + 16 shield + centurion's 10) or 116 against rit spike (10 vs. lightning) and SF (+10 vs. fire)
Defensive Anthem (was hit, but still good)
They're On Fire!
Mending Refrain (maybe a little?)

So how is a hit to stacking armour a solution? Base armour level as high as a warrior, healing + condition removal from c + spacing and spamming GftE! (and don't forget the energy management from it as well), a block skill that can't be stripped once up, and a % damage reduction skill that also can't be stripped. So... all of that is balanced now because those paragons are capped at 131 AL and power x skills can hit chants? This isn't even a bandaid fix to the problem.

I'd like to see adrenaline shouts returning half the energy from leadership, a recharge equal to the number of affected allies, refrains vanish after they've been reapplied x times equal to their respective attribute (with an energy reduction), and as others have suggested 10 off their armour level. I love my paragon, but it needs some hits so this armour cap nonsense goes away.

Lagg · Jun 13, 2007, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Ninjutsu Honor Code · Jun 13, 2007, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lagg

yeah they might aswell use that as a logo instead of providing counters they nerf everything till nothings left.

Engel the Fallen · Jun 13, 2007, 06:47 PM // 18:47

LMAO balancing for RA, and the fixing the wrong skill ftw

around · Jun 13, 2007, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

yeah they might aswell use that as a logo instead of providing counters they nerf everything till nothings left.

If there was a skill that instagibbed everyone on the other team but could be countered by another skill, is the first skill balanced?

Ninjutsu Honor Code · Jun 13, 2007, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by spawnofebil

If there was a skill that instagibbed everyone on the other team but could be countered by another skill, is the first skill balanced?

they already nerfed echo mending

LifeInfusion · Jun 13, 2007, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

I admit this really kills dolyak signet as a skill though. It's almost never worth sacrificing mobility for a mere 30ish armor you can't stack onto anything else.

I beg to differ. Dolyak is one of the few skills that prevents knockdown, cannot be stripped in any way except death, and gives a reasonable armor boost.

Ignorance STOPS it, but no skills STRIP it. Also, 0 cast time means no possible interrupt.

My main concern is the ubiquitous Watch yourself has been pommeled time after time just because of Paragons. It is more or less a staple skill for Koss/Goren since they upkeep it. Compare that to the craptastic warrior and ranger stances that get screwed over by Wild Strike/Throw/Blow.

Does-it-Matter · Jun 13, 2007, 07:05 PM // 19:05

ANet: I'm using Skill Update!
Community: Ahhh! Oh God! The End is Nigh! Unplayable, I'm unplayable! We must rally against the PvP players! PvE is n00b! My cat smells like cat litter.

Seriously people, every time I read a community response to a proposed skill update (once the "snowball" gets running, that is) I feel like I'm playing Arborstone endlessly.

It's still all on paper... WAIT to see how it actually turns out. Maybe that creative thingy in your brain might get some oxygen and blood and start going "Oh God! Freedom! Finally!"

All this is, is a series of persons promoting each others' fears and further diluting the subject.

---

OT: This reminds me of a thought I had in the recently announced update thread. A person made a comment about how Hexes are running rampant now, supposedly buffed to unheard of levels of power. They called for 'nerfs' so that Hexes would be 'balanced' because there is no way to counter such things...

...and then someone suggested a Mesmer, and players around the World were most likely rushing to Wiki to figure out what that term means.

The solutions are out there... we just have to think!

Guardian of the Light · Jun 13, 2007, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Something like +40 would have been a bit more reasonable but this doesn't really affect me.

Now that I look at the changes they have a cap on everything. Except Health boost or reducution....uh oh...

upier · Jun 13, 2007, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

isnt that what most pugs do anyways?

And hows any kind of restriction going to stop those with creativity anyway?

Lets see how this is implemented and give Anet the feedback.

yeah and most players are complete idiots - does that mean we should lower to their lovel?
before we were given a choice - you could do the same old nuking+tank or you could buff everyone's armour to some sweet leveles and try something different.
now only ONE option seems viable and that is bad.
especially in a game with 10 classes and only 8 slots in a party!